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Old 04-14-2001, 12:15 PM   #81
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Omnedon1:

Nice dodge. I repeat:

Fairy tales are usually quite clear about the moral lessons they want to get across.
That does not prevent them from being fairy tales, however. And since you have no proof of the "god incarnate" or "dying for sins" part, your statement is a non sequitir.

And finally, since you have no evidence that Christ did not also "remain dead", I would say that you have two equivalent scenarios:

1. Caesar and Christ died.
2. Caesar and Christ remained dead.

</font>
What do you think a non sequitir is?
 
Old 04-14-2001, 12:18 PM   #82
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Omnedon1:
Just curious: are you ever going to show me where I said anything even remotely close to the text in bold, deLayman?
</font>
I didn't say you said it. Did I?

So far you haven't been able to show that Nomad said we had more evidence for Ceasar's life than we did for Jesus. You've admitted I didn't say it. You then brought up Josh McDowell and claimed he said something of the sort.

So. If neither Nomad or myself raised the issue? Or relied on J. McDowell, why did YOU bring him up?

And just what did J. McDowell say that has you so upset anyway?

[This message has been edited by Layman (edited April 14, 2001).]
 
Old 04-14-2001, 04:34 PM   #83
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This pissing contest seems a lot like the Engergizer Bunny. It just keeps going and going and going....

I suppose those involved in it are probably concerned with it, but I hope the participants don't assume those who are primarily observing really give a rats ass.

People make mistakes, people misconstrue arguments, people misunderstand arguments, arguments are worded poorly causing people to misunderstand and/or misconstrue them. This is not big news, it does not make a person "bad" or "stupid" whether they are theist or non-theist. Get over it. Its just not worth all this back and forth mud slinging.
 
Old 04-14-2001, 04:37 PM   #84
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by madmax2976:
This pissing contest seems a lot like the Engergizer Bunny. It just keeps going and going and going....

I suppose those involved in it are probably concerned with it, but I hope the participants don't assume those who are primarily observing really give a rats ass.

People make mistakes, people misconstrue arguments, people misunderstand arguments, arguments are worded poorly causing people to misunderstand and/or misconstrue them. This is not big news, it does not make a person "bad" or "stupid" whether they are theist or non-theist. Get over it. Its just not worth all this back and forth mud slinging.
</font>
Good points.

I'm ready to admit that all that has happened is misreading, confusion, misunderstanding, and poorly worded statements.



[This message has been edited by Layman (edited April 14, 2001).]
 
Old 04-16-2001, 12:22 PM   #85
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by DennisMcD:

Nomad: 1) I never challenged the historicity of Julius Caesar.

Dennis: I never said you did. Please read my first post, for it is evident you never read it in the first place. I said the sources we have for the events of Caesar's life is far better than the events of Jesus's life. So far, no one has really challenged the point.</font>
So I guess we get to start here with this red herring Dennis. YOU created this thread, so now you get to defend it. Personally, if I were you, I would ask the moderators to delete the entire thing, because we are going to go through your historical ignorance step by step from this point forward.

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Nomad: 2) I did ask how many sources we have for his assassination.

Dennis: Why focus on the assassination?</font>
Now I am left to wonder if you read your own posts Dennis. Let's see what you wrote:

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Dennis April 06, 2001 09:22 AM:

Nomad: Yeah. On the other hand, how many contemporary writings do we have on the assassination of Julius Caesar? Or the death of Cleopatra? Pick an ancient event, and ask how much testimony we have on it from the period in question.</font>
This was my quote that presumably got you so hot and bothered, and it was raised within the context of a discussion about the historicity of Jesus being buried in a tomb.

Now, let's keep going:

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">It's not that extraordinary of an event, and it is not the focus of this discussion.</font>
I agree that it was not that extraordinary of an event, but then neither is the burial of Jesus. THAT is why I drew the parralel. I want to see how good the supporting evidence is for Julius' assassination and compare it to the amount of evidence that we have that Jesus was buried in a tomb.

So, stay focused, because this is what we are going to talk about. I hope you will provide some evidence.

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">The point is that Julius's life was well-documented in his lifetime and thereafter.</font>
No, this is not the point. We are talking about history is studied, and how evidence is gathered and evaluated in the study of specific historical events. We have two on the table:

1) Jesus buried in a tomb
2) Julius Caesar assassinated

Let's compare them and see how well we do.

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"> Jesus's was only documented well after his lifetime by a group of people with a motivation to make him appear greater than he really was. Again, a point conveniently ignored before this.</font>
Actually, we are going to get into this in greater depth as well Dennis. I hope you have done some reading.

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Nomad: 3) Thus far no one has produced a bloody thing.

Dennis: I have shown the case for the events of Caesar's life is far better than the case for the events of Jesus.</font>
I asked specificially for primary documentation of the assassination of Julius Caesar. I have done this on two separate threads now. You have foolishly picked up this gauntlet, and now I want to see what you can produce.

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Nomad: 4) Does anyone have an answer to this question or not? If not, what was the point of this thread?

Dennis: Apparently, the point was to have you and Layman babble on about claims I never made, because neither of you have even indicated that you understood the point.</font>
So your answer here is you don't have anything thus far. Fine. Have you managed to dig anything up since this last post?

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Nomad: I know many of you do not know or understand how history is studied. At the same time, if you are going to start a thread in which you will supposedly address one of my questions, please answer that question.

Dennis: It is obvious that you and Layman have no clue how to read history (see my Michael Grant thread, Nomad), which is why I see no reason to continue any discussion with you.</font>
I have a lot of patience Dennis, and if you are prepared to tough it out, I hope, through the course of this and a couple of other threads to help teach you in this matter. I hope you will learn something by it.

Right now here is the test, come up with some primary sources on the assassination of Julius Caesar, and we will compare it to the event of Jesus being buried in a tomb. At the end of the day we can then determine who has the most evidence.

I look forward to your (this time hopefully actual) reply.

Nomad
 
 

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